Green, Jewish and seeking truth

Jewish Socialist: What were the most significant things for you about the Green Party’s performance in the general election?
Zack Polanski: People often associate the Green Party as an environmental party, and the climate and environment is at the centre of everything we do. But there’s no environmental justice without racial, social and economic justice, too. Often people don’t realise the correlation between inequality, poverty, racism and austerity. You’ve got to keep joining these dots. At this general election, people from all sorts of communities understood that this was a time where voting for the Green Party was voting for what the Labour Party should have been a long time ago, but they’ve abandoned that space. I just watched Rachel Reeves’ [Conference] speech. A young protester heckled her about selling arms to Israel and was yanked out the conference hall by the neck. The crowds cheered. Rachel Reeves said. “The Labour party has changed.”

And I just thought, you were on 33% of the vote – not a resounding victory. Never mind the awfulness of what it looks like, a young person is worried about our complicity in what is being described as a genocide, is speaking to that and protesting. It should be the party that respects peaceful debate and protest. You’re physically yanking that person out of the conference, then gleefully carrying on with your speech as if you’ve earned the right to absolute power with no dissent. You were on this tiny minority of a vote. The Tories lost it as opposed to Labour winning it.

JS: Fewer than 60% voted. And without the SNP collapse, Labour wouldn’t have many seats in Scotland.
ZP: The amount of people in Britain who are absolutely disillusioned with politics is a challenge for anyone in any party, really. You can stoke that and go, “Isn’t it brilliant that everyone’s sick of the Labour Party and Conservative Party?” But if you don’t create an alternative that will genuinely make a material difference to people’s lives, that excites and inspires people, then Reform-UK are not even waiting in the wings, they’re on the stage and shouting.

JS: It’s very worrying. So where would you locate the greens now on a left/right or a progressive/reactionary spectrum?
ZP: Without doubt, we’re a progressive party. That’s always been at the heart of everything that we do. The official answer is that labels just aren’t helpful. We’re a green party. Our policies are democratically decided through a grassroots movement. The party is what our members are voting for. My more personal answer is, I think the party is strongest when we’re in the eco-socialist space and being really clear that those are our values. We’re progressive and internationalist, intersectional and left wing.

JS: How fundamental are the changes needed to sustain the planet? Can they be achieved under capitalism?
ZP: Totally fundamental. It’s an existential crisis. The debate often gets pitted as economic growth versus protecting the planet. It’s a false binary. If you want economic growth, the best way to get it is tackle the climate crisis, create good jobs that have good pay, fair working conditions, that tackle racial, gender disability and inequality, and workers are in trade unions, so people are properly represented and organised. Though, I don’t think economic growth should be the answer. It should be about communities that live with purpose, better mental health, where people have a stake in their community, a more democratic society that protects people and planet rather than profit, and isn’t serving solely corporate interests.

JS: Which issues and perspectives most differentiate Greens from Starmer’s Labour Party as an alternative to Tory rule?
ZP: The one most important to my heart is migration. The Green Party have a completely unapologetic stance on migration, and recognise that it benefits this country. We are a country built on migration. We always have to be careful that we don’t make it sound like people of colour or migrants are only welcome here if they’re contributing to music, art, culture, and food, because, although they’ve done that, it’s also about common humanity and collective humanity, and recognising that if people are fleeing persecution, or they just want a better life, that actually benefits us too.

The Battle of Cable Street was the big story of my conference speech – recognising my Jewish heritage alongside trade unionists, socialists, communists, workers, migrants.

With the recent riots in our streets, the Green Party really believe in that collective solidarity, not pitting communities against each other. Not trying to create tensions between Jewish and Muslim communities, but recognising that Islamophobia and antisemitism are two sides of the same coin. Our communities are at our best when we recognise our differences. There’s no need to be homogeneous.

The second big difference is to recognise mass inequality in our society, and challenge trickle-down economics. The Green Party are very clear that we need a wealth tax.

The third thing is the climate crisis. Labour talk a good game on climate crisis, but even in London, Sadiq Khan, one of the better people in Labour on the climate crisis, would still not condemn private jets in their entirety. Private jets are the pinnacle of climate injustice.

If you say that the multimillionaires and billionaires can continue to live their polluting, luxury lifestyles, then you can’t speak to people in their communities and to workers and say, “You need to change your habits.” They’ll rightly laugh you out the room because of the flagrant hypocrisy. The inequality issue and the climate issue are the same conversation. You can’t tackle either without tackling both simultaneously.

JS: How would you describe your Jewish family and cultural background?
ZP: A very traditional Jewish background. I went to King David’s school [a Jewish primary school]. I was involved with Habonim/Dror [a left-wing, Zionist youth movement]. I am concerned about the repeated messages to young people around Israel. As an adult I would question some stories that I was told, but so many of my values, my love of community, challenging inequality, love of migration, definitely come from some of those days in Habonim/Dror, too.

I had a Bar Mitzvah, then didn’t go to synagogue for years. My Jewish identity didn’t come back up again until decades later. I started to get involved in the environmental movement, veganism and animal rights, and came across the [Jewish] concept of “mending the world” and looked again at my Jewish background and those Jewish values.

I’ve definitely re-embraced my Jewish identity. Very often, groups that I don’t agree with try to dismiss many of our Jewish identities as not those of “real Jews”, or other negative language that I’ve heard frequently. So it becomes even more important to reclaim your Jewish identity, to say, “Actually what you are presenting as Judaism is a completely distorted form of what it can be”. I don’t speak for all Jews. No one can. We’re very diverse, but I certainly do speak for a group of Jewish people, proud of their Judaism, proud of their heritage, but who also reject some of the narratives around what you need to believe or say in order to be a “real Jew”.

I remember growing up, having Jewish conversations, but it would be through the lens of what I would now class as social justice. What was going on in the Torah was around inequality. I went to a largely Christian [secondary] school. While everyone else went to pray, a small group would go to a separate room with the French teacher. Each day one of us would have to prepare a debate around a topic that was happening in the news. What’s more Jewish than a group of Jews coming together in a room every morning and having an argument about what was going on in the news?

I saw Em Hilton’s interview by Owen Jones a year or two ago, where she talked about the long lineage of left-wing socialist Jews in a way that had never resonated with me before. My Judaism and my left-wing, progressive politics had always been slightly separate topics, almost at odds with each other.

Em made me realise that these things are absolutely in alignment. They were just not the stories that I’ve necessarily been told. I’ve done lots more research, know a lot more left-wing Jews now, and recognise that for centuries Jews have been challenging power and injustice.

JS: Given your critical public positions on Israel/Palestine that you’ve expressed, for example, on Na’amod platforms, how are your relationships within and across the Jewish community?
ZP: It’s been very polarising. I remember doing an LBC interview quite soon after 7th October, and the host said: “As one of the most senior Jewish politicians in the country, I’m interested…”. I’ve never thought of myself as representing the Jewish community, but I do think of myself as representing a block of Jewish voices that are against the occupation, that are seeing a genocide in Gaza and are wanting to name that for what it is, to get the violence to stop in order to move towards peace and negotiation. We need to be able to name things appropriately, to provide caution, when appropriate, about things we say, but to tell the truth. That’s the key element.

My relationship with the media has been difficult, and I include Jewish journalists in that during the election, I was repeatedly asked about so-called antisemitism in the Green Party – increasingly absurd allegations – or whether I was an antisemite. No matter how many times you ask to see evidence or refute allegations, if the media decide they’re going to tell a story, then they will. But one that really resonated was a Jewish journalist who was saying, “I’m asking you, because I’m Jewish, and I’m concerned”, and you try and connect on the human level around the fact that, very obviously, as a Jewish person and deputy leader of a party, I wouldn’t allow antisemitism in the Green Party, and I would certainly make sure it is challenged.

I’m really proud of the Jewish Greens group within the party. There are a diversity of opinions, but conversation has always been respectful. People have both listened and had their voice. The thing I’m proudest of about the Jewish Greens is the regular statements and meetings they’ve had with Muslim Greens and Greens for Palestine.

JS: Do some Jewish Greens join the Jewish Bloc on the Palestine demonstrations?
ZP: Quite a lot of them do – probably a majority.

JS: Have you been approached as Deputy Leader of the Green Party by Jewish establishment organisations?
ZP: Yes. Last week I met with the London Jewish Forum, more in my role as a London Assembly member, and I’ve had meetings with the Board of Deputies and the Jewish Leadership Council. I didn’t say anything to them that I’ve not said in this interview, which is, I’m proud of my Jewish heritage. I take protecting Jewish communities really seriously. And if you are going to accuse the Green Party of antisemitism, then there better be some credible evidence. Then I’ll take that seriously but also I will very robustly defend the party against the weaponisation of antisemitism. The Board of Deputies objects to the phrase “weaponisation of antisemitism” and I can understand why. It’s not a phrase even a few years ago that I would have wanted to use. But some accusations of antisemitism are so egregious and so obviously politically motivated. The Times, for instance, printed on its front page allegations against several of our candidates on the day that nominations closed. All done under the pretence of “We’re just trying to stop antisemitism in the Green Party.” But if you’ve printed that on the front page of The Times, you’ve had those stories for quite a while. You could have given us some notice to then be able to try and deal with it before nominations close. But this was a very obvious political attack.

JS: The Greens have been accused of providing a welcoming home for Jews who have been expelled from Labour, accused of antisemitism.
ZP: One of those [Jewish] organisations was very insistent that Jo Bird shouldn’t be allowed into the Green Party and, once she was allowed in, that she shouldn’t be able to run for Parliament. Jo can speak for herself, and does very eloquently. The evidence against Jo that anyone presented to me was absurd. But this indicated to me the difference between the Green Party and the Labour Party. The idea in the Green Party that even if I wanted to, and I certainly didn’t, to just start expelling people or suspending people as someone who is in a leadership position would be absolutely absurd. We’re a grassroots democratic party. There’s no way that I would interfere with a disciplinary process like that.

Some of their stories of Jewish people who felt unwelcome in the Labour Party, are horrific. It can be tempting to fight the Labour Party, but a much more positive and effective thing to do is recognise that a home is there in the Green Party that is supportive, intersectional, works with people, and has a fair and robust disciplinary process based on a concept of natural justice, and can build an alternative to Labour.

It’s important to say that that there were also instances of people who have been kicked out of the Labour Party for what I would say are legitimate reasons. They continued to engage in problematic antisemitic behaviours. And the Green Party said, “No, you’re not welcome.” So that does happen too. Antisemitism exists in society. It’s about being clear where the lines and boundaries are. Giving people a chance for education is really important too.

JS: The Greens – like other parties – were bullied into accepting the IHRA definition of antisemitism, but then also adopted the Jerusalem Declaration on Antisemitism. Can you elaborate?
ZP: I’m really proud of the nuanced approach that we took, because the debate around antisemitism had become increasingly polarised. We wanted a disciplinary process that reflected a diversity of views and opinions. Rather than accept one definition, pushed as the “gold standard”, we have taken diverse definitions from Jewish academics and authors. If someone is accused of antisemitism, the committee ruling over that disciplinary process have these different definitions and come to a collective agreement.

Establishment Jewish organisations often ask: “How can you have conflicting views of antisemitism?” My answer is because there are conflicting views about antisemitism. Let’s have more information and more nuanced discussion, led by Jewish people.

JS: What do you think is driving the growth of the far right in Britain today? What strategies do the Green Party have to challenge it and encourage people from minorities to join the Greens.
ZP: We’ve got this incredibly unequal society and then you’ve got politicians pointing at people of colour or migrants, or so-called benefit scroungers, saying they’re the problems. The solution to this is for politicians to always tell the truth and point out that if people are worried about getting an NHS appointment or a dentist appointment, or they’re worried about getting their kids into schools, these are genuine concerns. But these concerns are not being created by some of the poorest, most vulnerable people in our society. These problems have been created by austerity and underinvestment, a project deliberately designed by the Conservative Government, but pushed also by Tony Blair through neoliberalism, and of course, very much right now with Keir Starmer.

I think also the complete obstruction to the idea of nationalisation or public services being in public hands is a key component of this idea of not trusting your country, which further fuels that kind of nationalism or racist patriotism that can exist in the far right. We need to reclaim our kind of sense of identity and pride in our country, and not allow those groups to do it for us. The answer to it, as well, is to have leadership from within those communities. I really hope that one of our next Green MPs is someone I’ve never met yet, because they are in those faith or non-faith minority communities, already doing grassroots, community organising but think that politics is a little bit dirty and not what they’re into. The work I’m doing at the moment very much is to go to those communities, encourage other Green Party members to go to those communities and speak to them about what our politics is, and what grassroots politics is, to get them involved. And we’ll support them to become an MP.

JS: Are the Greens seeking more contact with and influence within trade unions?
ZP: In the last year I’ve met the Fire Brigades Union, the Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS), the Independent Workers’ Union of Great Britain (IWGB), United Voices of the World (UVW) and the TUC. I’m constantly meeting with trade unions. A future in which we tackle the climate crisis and inequality has to be a future that involves the trade union movement, because it must have workers at its heart. My role is to make sure that the Green Party is a space where people recognise themselves. And that includes a party that is talking about a class analysis and a class consciousness.

Photo: Zack Polanski speaking at an event organised by Na’amod in support of the people of Gaza